Is there something missing from this talent vs. hard work dynamic — Joy?
If you're going to put in a lot of hard work, it's gotta to be something you enjoy doing or enjoy having done. There are going frustrations you need to push through and failures you need to get past. That's hard to deal with if you don't like something about the process or results.
This doesn't change the advice given — try things, work hard, be tenacious, commit — but could help explain why you'd put in all this work. Though you could just be delusional and think it's something you want. That probably works too.
This seems spot on with a lot of advice I've read about mastery. Learning to enjoy the process of practice seems to be a prerequisite to breaking through plateaus and barriers. If you don't have that enjoyment, you are putting a barrier up to how good you can get.
Like many people who write about this, you have a giant blind spot. While innate affinity (talent) and consistent work are obviously factors, the biggest factor is LUCK. This includes privilege, childhood economic situation, personal networks, gifts, access to quality healthcare etc... all of these factors are mitigated by LUCK, randomness, and it completely shits on the myth of merit.
The most useless thing to believe is that luck is the primary determinant of success. It removes agency and promotes self destructive, short term decisions.
Yes and no. Part of the luck is rigged systems of oppression. Your dog being born a dog is not unfair in any way, they are a perfect dog. They should have what dogs need to be dogs, etc.
Now apply that to humans and see how it is designed so that humans do not get what they need to be humans based on systems of oppression.
And i am saying that is patently false and a colonial view that keeps people oppressed and that weaponizes the populace against each other and those who are disproportionately marginalized.
Yes, im not saying individual choices dont matter, they just matter a lot less than ppl think. Survivorship bias is a crazy phenomenon because successful people credit their success to their individual choices.
#4 surround yourself with hard-working and ambitious people. This is probably the most effective way. We're a social species! Things that seem insane and difficult become normal when the people around you do it. We learn through other people. Don't go it alone
I can’t relate more as a former burn out in college guy in Japan!
Allow me for bragging a bit but
I really was an insufferable dipshit when I was a senior at high school, scoring 99.95 or so percentile for SAT equivalent in Japan while bragging about how few hours I have spent on studying.
But in retrospect, it was just I spend few hours in senior, and I did not hate math and I actually even liked studying social studies! And my parents had me pick up English from pre school, which also helped a lot in Japanese exam system.
I was so arrogant that I thought all of them were bc of my natural talent. I also thought like how rare of a talent I was - but no, even with that score, it just means there are 30k or so more “talented” ppl on the planet in *my generation* - and the competition after getting an adult is not really limited to your generation either.
I was too much of a dipshit to keep grinding after college and I completely flopped afterwards while retaining a cheap pride of “talented kid” lol
Reading this makes me realize that one of the issues caused by a narcissistic parent is the talent vs. effort praise: a narcissist LOVES to see talent in their kids, because it seems like a reflection on them. But they couldn't care less about whether their kid is putting in their own effort. That is something I have to overcome as an adult now (who was "talented/smart" enough to just coast through school)
I'll bite: what's the equivalent of "Put down a non-refundable deposit on the event space and invite a hundred people publicly" for "publish one post every week"? Set posts to publish automatically?
There's another dimension worth exploring here: anxiety and comfort with increasing levels of responsibility. I am quite talented and work very hard, but I tend to get easily upset and worried when things aren't going to-plan at work. I feel like I'm letting people down, and it really impacts my ability to enjoy my work -- even if what I'm doing despite the issues is still relatively stellar. And I also tend to get quite anxious when delivering bad news to my management, making the entire gambit of being more responsible for more important deliverables that much less enticing to me.
Yet, I clearly work hard enough and have the right set of skills and talents to do this kind of work -- probably better than most people who are far more comfortable in these environments than I am.
If I didn't have either of these personality quirks, I believe I would be far more monetarily successful and would likely have far more of an impact -- despite how hard I work and how talented I happen to be.
Long Beach City college offers basically the same courses for the first two years of study as the Ivy Leagues. That is why credits transfer. One of the nondescript universities I attended sends many graduates to IVY League medical schools. You can get a good undergraduate education in many schools. A bachelor’s degree is more about you than the school. Save your money, that is if you are not trying to impress someone.
Just wanted to say I really enjoyed this article. I wouldn't want this topic to replace your usual content on how social media impacts our lives, but feel free to throw an occasional curve ball when you get the itch to write on a different topic!
Is there something missing from this talent vs. hard work dynamic — Joy?
If you're going to put in a lot of hard work, it's gotta to be something you enjoy doing or enjoy having done. There are going frustrations you need to push through and failures you need to get past. That's hard to deal with if you don't like something about the process or results.
This doesn't change the advice given — try things, work hard, be tenacious, commit — but could help explain why you'd put in all this work. Though you could just be delusional and think it's something you want. That probably works too.
This seems spot on with a lot of advice I've read about mastery. Learning to enjoy the process of practice seems to be a prerequisite to breaking through plateaus and barriers. If you don't have that enjoyment, you are putting a barrier up to how good you can get.
Like many people who write about this, you have a giant blind spot. While innate affinity (talent) and consistent work are obviously factors, the biggest factor is LUCK. This includes privilege, childhood economic situation, personal networks, gifts, access to quality healthcare etc... all of these factors are mitigated by LUCK, randomness, and it completely shits on the myth of merit.
The most useless thing to believe is that luck is the primary determinant of success. It removes agency and promotes self destructive, short term decisions.
Only for colonized western addicts. Ignorance breeds ignorance.
But given that the luck die is cast - for an individual - isn’t this a reasonable approach?
It might not be “fair” - but who ever said life was fair? Definitely not my dog…who was born as a dog.
Yes and no. Part of the luck is rigged systems of oppression. Your dog being born a dog is not unfair in any way, they are a perfect dog. They should have what dogs need to be dogs, etc.
Now apply that to humans and see how it is designed so that humans do not get what they need to be humans based on systems of oppression.
I agree that Luck place an unfair and disproportionate role.
But for individual, I think the “ Hard work, supersede talent” Argument holds.
Luck>hard work>talent
And i am saying that is patently false and a colonial view that keeps people oppressed and that weaponizes the populace against each other and those who are disproportionately marginalized.
Would we at least agree that luck > hard work > talent, acknowledging that the materiality of each is different?
Yes, im not saying individual choices dont matter, they just matter a lot less than ppl think. Survivorship bias is a crazy phenomenon because successful people credit their success to their individual choices.
#4 surround yourself with hard-working and ambitious people. This is probably the most effective way. We're a social species! Things that seem insane and difficult become normal when the people around you do it. We learn through other people. Don't go it alone
Nice try, 99% percentile SAT guy
I can’t relate more as a former burn out in college guy in Japan!
Allow me for bragging a bit but
I really was an insufferable dipshit when I was a senior at high school, scoring 99.95 or so percentile for SAT equivalent in Japan while bragging about how few hours I have spent on studying.
But in retrospect, it was just I spend few hours in senior, and I did not hate math and I actually even liked studying social studies! And my parents had me pick up English from pre school, which also helped a lot in Japanese exam system.
I was so arrogant that I thought all of them were bc of my natural talent. I also thought like how rare of a talent I was - but no, even with that score, it just means there are 30k or so more “talented” ppl on the planet in *my generation* - and the competition after getting an adult is not really limited to your generation either.
I was too much of a dipshit to keep grinding after college and I completely flopped afterwards while retaining a cheap pride of “talented kid” lol
At least you had the self awareness to eventually realize you’re not special.
Reading this makes me realize that one of the issues caused by a narcissistic parent is the talent vs. effort praise: a narcissist LOVES to see talent in their kids, because it seems like a reflection on them. But they couldn't care less about whether their kid is putting in their own effort. That is something I have to overcome as an adult now (who was "talented/smart" enough to just coast through school)
Where are the dumb kids? Dumb adults have to come from somewhere. I'm tired of precocious children.
I'll bite: what's the equivalent of "Put down a non-refundable deposit on the event space and invite a hundred people publicly" for "publish one post every week"? Set posts to publish automatically?
Galaxy brain take: you either have a talent for working hard or you don’t
" Consuming content - video games, social media scrolling, Netflix shows"
Substack articles!
Good stuff, thanks for this.
There's another dimension worth exploring here: anxiety and comfort with increasing levels of responsibility. I am quite talented and work very hard, but I tend to get easily upset and worried when things aren't going to-plan at work. I feel like I'm letting people down, and it really impacts my ability to enjoy my work -- even if what I'm doing despite the issues is still relatively stellar. And I also tend to get quite anxious when delivering bad news to my management, making the entire gambit of being more responsible for more important deliverables that much less enticing to me.
Yet, I clearly work hard enough and have the right set of skills and talents to do this kind of work -- probably better than most people who are far more comfortable in these environments than I am.
If I didn't have either of these personality quirks, I believe I would be far more monetarily successful and would likely have far more of an impact -- despite how hard I work and how talented I happen to be.
Long Beach City college offers basically the same courses for the first two years of study as the Ivy Leagues. That is why credits transfer. One of the nondescript universities I attended sends many graduates to IVY League medical schools. You can get a good undergraduate education in many schools. A bachelor’s degree is more about you than the school. Save your money, that is if you are not trying to impress someone.
What do you do when you put tons of time into something and see no progress?
Just wanted to say I really enjoyed this article. I wouldn't want this topic to replace your usual content on how social media impacts our lives, but feel free to throw an occasional curve ball when you get the itch to write on a different topic!