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Trace's avatar

Three semi-related thoughts re:Reddit:

1) The one problem with Reddit's downvote button is that once a subreddit becomes sufficiently colonized by a certain narrative, it becomes a way of enforcing community hive-mindedness. Even though Reddiquette has always said that the downvote is not an "I disagree" button... it is, it absolutely is. Going against a subreddit's agreed-upon shibboleths is a good way to get your karma tanked, which can even restrict your ability to post if it gets to a certain point. Go on r/gaming and say that lootboxes or battle passes aren't that big of a deal and that microtransactions are a response to the prices of games not keeping up with inflation while development costs have skyrocketed, say anything good about Hillary Clinton back in 2016 or any of the other primary candidates other than Bernie Sanders on r/politics back in 2019-2020, go onto r/lgbt and say anything positive about Pete Buttigieg or that Democrats are actually pretty good political allies of the LGBT community and we don't need a communist revolution, etc, etc, I'm sure we all have an example. Which then creates a self-reinforcing cycle as people stop posting arguments that might earn downvotes or leave the subreddit altogether, which then makes contrarian takes even more likely to be downvoted, which then... etc.

2) One of the most annoying Reddit changes to me, one which could have helped alleviate the "downvote-as-disagree" problem was switching from showing the "Upvotes | Downvotes" ratio to just showing a net upvote count. If you went against the grain, you might still get mass downvoted, but you could also see how many people were agreeing with you. A post that was "-10" might actually be "+40 | -50". You might be more inclined to keep a post up to counteract a circlejerk ("why are you booing me, I'm right") than if you just see that your post is widely disliked.

3) You're obviously right about Reddit as a source for higher-quality discussion (and everyone I know uses the Google "+reddit" tip), but I think it's hard for me to forget about Reddit's past as an extremely toxic site back around 2013-2016 during the r/fatpeoplehate/Ellen Pao/the Fappening/GamerGate drama cycles. It has obviously improved over the years, and I think it'd be interesting to see a deeper dive into why and what changes led to that. I wonder how much could be chocked up to the current admins purging a lot of the most vile subs. At some point they also cracked down on brigading (a mass of posters from one subreddit being directed to invade and hijack the discourse of another subreddit) which used to be much more common in the days of r/ChapoTrapHouse and r/thedonald, and so there are a lot fewer toxic jerks showing up in random discussions.

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Jaack's avatar

I'm also going to push back on the value of downvotes, but mostly because of the problems with any sort of post karma system.

With any sort of like or upvote system, people will be compelled to post content likely to get a positive response - thus we all become comedians doing crowdwork. The top commens in reddit are rarely insightful replies - they are just one liners, and mostly fairly stale or lazy ones. The even more vapid land of youtube comments is even worse. Like go into the comments section of any music video with more than like 500k views, and you will have:

-I'm 14 and this music is better than <pop star from 5 years ago>

-Whose listening to this in 2022?

-I'm going to play this as I walk down the aisle in my wedding

-<3 paragraph story about a dead parent who loved this song>

Now, if you take away post karma, the peanut gallery goes from total feedback power, to just eyeballs on the other side of the screen. Your only feedback for posting is another post in response. So instead of crowd work, you should post in a way that demands a response - interesting and worthy of follow up.

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